Q&A

Hello,

This question comes with the changes to "identical parts" and standoffs not being considered under R12.

R12

Robots may use any commercially available #4, #6, #8, M3, M3.5, or M4 screw up to 2.5” (63.5mm) long (nominal), and any commercially available nut, washer, and / or non-threaded spacer (up to 2.5” (63.5mm) long) to fit these screws.

R6, R7 and R8 do not mention standoffs as an exception for what can be used from a third party.

Are standoffs purchased from third parties legal if they are identical in in all ways besides color to what VEX Robotics / VEX Robotics resellers provide?

Thank you for your time!

Hello,

I have some questions about how the GDC ruled commercially available hardware last season, and would like to ask the question again for this season.

I’m referencing Change Up Q&A’s because R12 from Change Up is identical to Tipping Point 2.1 except for the addition of 2.5” hardware, and these are the Q&As I would like clarified for this season.

R12 from Tipping Point 2.1

Certain non-VEX screws, nuts, and washers are allowed. Robots may use any commercially available #4, #6, #8, M3, M3.5, or M4 screw up to 2.5” (63.5mm) long (nominal), and any commercially available nut, washer, and / or non-threaded spacer (up to 2.5” (63.5mm) long) to fit these screws.

Under this rule alone, using commercially available hardware regardless of additional functionality would be legal.

The note for R12 goes beyond clarifying, and limits in a way R12 doesn’t hint at.

The intent of the rule is to allow Teams to purchase their own commodity hardware without introducing additional functionality not found in standard VEX equipment. It is up to inspectors to determine whether the non-VEX hardware has introduced additional functionality or not.

The above note is the reason nylon fasteners are ruled legal, and lock washers illegal.

Change Up Nylon Fasteners Q&A https://events.vex.com/VRC/2020-2021/QA/747

In general, if the screw could be replaced with a standard VEX screw with no resulting functional changes to the mechanism in question, then they would be legal. However, if the mechanism takes advantage of a functional difference between the two screws (such as the additional flexibility of a nylon vs metal fastener), then they would likely be ruled illegal.

Change Up Lock Washer Q&A https://events.vex.com/VRC/2020-2021/QA/732

Standard VEX hardware does not include lock washers; therefore, this would be considered introducing additional functionality, and would not be legal.

Teams use nylon hardware because it is lighter than steel hardware. A team would generally experience a functional difference changing 50 nylon screws to steel screws. But, replacing the nylon screws for VEX thumb screws would most likely not make a functional difference beyond screw head size, but that could be cut.

Nylon screws being used for the flexibility was said to be illegal because that’s not something found in VEX equipment. However, VEX sells plastic thumb screws that would be flexible, making this feature of nylon screws legal as long as it’s the same length as thumb screws.

The keps nuts that VEX sells have “skirts” that can be removed and used as a lock washer, so commercially available lock washers don’t introduce “additional functionality not found in standard VEX equipment” (R12 Note). These were said to be illegal because they aren’t found in “standard VEX hardware” (Lock Washer Q&A), even though the manual doesn’t say they need to be in standard VEX hardware. Lock washers were said to be illegal because they “introduce additional functionality” (Lock Washer Q&A), even though they don’t.

In Tower Takeover, many teams used countersunk screws on their trays to give cubes an easier time sliding. These screws could have been replaced with VEX shoulder screws, but because they don't have an angle to them, it’s not quite the same.

In Change Up it was ruled that nylon standoffs were illegal. Buying a #6 2” spacer from McMaster and tapping it seems to be fully within the rules. This would end up being an almost identical part to a 2” rounded nylon standoff. This could be an additional feature not found in VEX equipment.

Different OD spacers have been used since around 2016, maybe earlier, when 2587 used 5/16 spacers. Different spacers can be used for things like linear slides, or 0.875” aluminum spacers that perfectly fit inside of a c-channel and won’t compress.

This question expands to many different types of commercially available hardware that many teams utilize from sources like McMaster Carr or similar distributors. All of these parts introduce new functionality, some of which are found in VEX equipment, and some of which aren’t. For example, hardware made from different materials (such as aluminum, nylon, fiberglass, steel, titanium, ceramic, and more); washers of different diameter, thickness, or material; RoboSource shoulder screws; different sizes and types of hardware (such as 4-40 screws); and much more all introduce additional functionality.

What specific properties should be considered when determining if commercially available hardware "introduces additional functionality not found in standard VEX equipment"?

Thank you for your time!

Hello,

Quick question on the legality of nylon standoffs.

R12

Certain non-VEX screws, nuts, and washers are allowed. Robots may use any commercially available #4, #6, #8, M3, M3.5, or M4 screw up to 2” (50.8mm) long (nominal), and any commercially available nut, washer, and/or spacer (up to 2” / 50.8mm long) to fit these screws.

Q&A on Nylon Fasteners (further clarification of R12) https://events.vex.com/VRC/2020-2021/QA/747

As noted in R12, it will ultimately be at the inspector's discretion to determine whether or not a nylon screw has introduced additional functionality. In general, if the screw could be replaced with a standard VEX screw with no resulting functional changes to the mechanism in question, then they would be legal. However, if the mechanism takes advantage of a functional difference between the two screws (such as the additional flexibility of a nylon vs metal fastener), then they would likely be ruled illegal.

2016 Q&A ruling nylon standoffs illegal https://www.vexforum.com/t/answered-are-nylon-standoffs-legal/37748

...standoffs are not considered nuts.

Should standoffs be considered nuts when interpreting R12 and Q&A 747?

Thank you

In this previous ruling, it was determined that <VUR5> takes priority over <VUR6>:

https://events.vex.com/VEXU/2020-2021/QA/674

However, this is contradictory to every other instance of past rulings regarding <VUR6> and the wording of <VUR6> in the game manual.

⠀

For example, consider a typical custom sensor such as the pixy camera:

https://www.robotshop.com/en/charmed-labs-pixy-2-cmucam5-image-sensor.html

This sensor violates <R6>, <R7>, <R8>, <R10>, <R12>, <R20>, <R22>, as well as <VUR3> and <VUR8>.

VUR3 restricts the materials allowed, but this sensor violates the allowed materials.

VUR8 restricts the screw sizes allowed, but this sensor may have smaller screws than the allowed limit.

As another example, considerer a vex IQ sensor: https://www.vexrobotics.com/228-3014.html

This sensor would violate <R6>, <R7>, <R8>, <R10>, <R12>, <R20>, <R22>, as well as <VUR3> and <VUR2b>.

<VUR2b> restricts teams from using any vex IQ electronics, which would include this sensor.

⠀

Because <VUR6> specifically states "There is no restriction on sensors and other additional electronics that Robots may use for sensing and processing" it has been understood by most VexU teams that <VUR6> takes priority over all the other rules in the game manual. Logically this would also mean <VUR6> would take priority over <VUR5>.

⠀

Several other Q/As over the years have verified this as correct as the wording on <VUR6> has not significantly changed since these rulings:

https://www.vexforum.com/t/answered-vexu-speakers-as-part-of-custom-sensor/42312

https://www.vexforum.com/t/answered-vex-u-old-college-q-a-updates/23810

https://www.vexforum.com/t/answered-custom-sensor-housing/19582/2

These three Q/As verify that <VUR6> would take priority over <VUR3> and <VUR8> as well as all the regular game manual rules mentioned above.

Furthermore, the following Q/A shows that <VUR6> would also take priority over <VUR5>:

https://www.vexforum.com/t/answered-vex-u-non-vex-servo-motors-for-a-custom-sensor/35538

This allowed external non vex motors used solely for manipulating custom sensors.

If this were the case, it would agree with the wording of <VUR6>. There are numerous sensors and processing boards that rely on motors to operate.

For example, many full field lidar systems such as:

https://www.robotshop.com/en/rplidar-a1m8-360-degree-laser-scanner-development-kit.html

rely on an integrated motor to spin the lidar enabling it to map the field. VexU teams have legally used similar lidar systems in the past and may plan to do so again this season.

Another example would be the Nvidia Jetson Xavier NX listed below:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems/jetson-xavier-nx/

This processing board has a built-in fan on its heatsink that is critical to its function as a processing unit.

A third example is the pixy tilt and pan kit: https://pixycam.com/pixy2-pan-tilt-kit/ (ruled legal in the above Q/A linked).

Without these integrated motors, none of these sensors or processing units could function as intended.

⠀

Therefore, which rules, if any, restrict the "no restriction" clause of <VUR6>?

Furthermore, if <VUR5> does not apply to <VUR6>, then was the previous ruling in QA#674 an error?

If <VUR5> is applicable, are 360-degree Lidar sensors and the Nvidia Jetson processing boards also illegal? If all VexU appendix rules also apply to <VUR6>, then does that mean that there are no legal VexU custom sensors?

I've been hearing that some official qualifying competitions are going to establish a rule where the robots must be V4/VEX Cortex only. Is it correct that Event Partners cannot do such a thing considering the rule <R12>?

This question is regarding rule R12:

<R12> Certain non-VEX screws, nuts, and washers are allowed. Robots may use any commercially available #4, #6, #8, M3, M3.5, or M4 screw up to 2” (50.8mm) long (nominal), and any commercially available nut, washer, and/or spacer (up to 2” / 50.8mm long) to fit these screws. The intent of the rule is to allow teams to purchase their own commodity hardware without introducing additional functionality not found in standard VEX equipment. It is up to inspectors to determine whether the non-VEX hardware has introduced additional functionality or not.

Would a commercially available shoulder screw, of #8 size and up to 2” long, be permitted under rule R12? Considering that VEX currently sells shoulder screws (item 276-1408), these commercially available shoulder screws would not introduce “additional functionality not found in standard VEX equipment”.

During a elementary IQ finals match at a tournament I was at, a team's battery went down. An adult coach proceeded to throw the team a fresh battery, in the middle of the match. Is this an illegal action in any way? Mainly referring to rules R12 or G2?

Under rules <R12>, <R16>, <R17>, may teams using the V5 Control System use a Cortex VEXNET 2.0 Key as a non-functional decoration?

In the Game Manual it states in <R12> that the Inspector will have final say as to whether as to what is considered non-functional decoration. Given that Inspectors do not go through the same training as many Head Referees, what happens when a Head Referee deems something as functional? <T1> says the Head Referee has the ultimate say about what is permissible in matches.

Which has precedent? <R12> or <T1>?

At our recent competition, we were strictly warned about putting carbon fiber (the contact paper kind) on the Lexan we use in the middle of the cube tray. The basis of the argument is that it changes the surface that the cube slides on. Upon further investigation, I thought I’d seen other teams do the same thing, primarily for decoration. I understand where it could look like a rule violation, as tape isn’t allowed for anything except wiring and decor (nonfunctional). Is this a violation of R12, or is it just an overly cautious inspector?

** We also realize that inspectors have the final say, but I would like to get a response on this to know for sure how to handle things at our next tournament

On the vex forum there are discussions of 3D Printed License Plate Holders. But, "Anything written on the forum is just chit-chat and can’t be used to prove anything to EPs or tournament hosts." I find this to be confusing because many teams are posting their designs online and are not distinguishing whether they are VRC or VEXU. I can see a team showing up at a tournament with a 3D Printed License Plate Holder and trying to prove to the EP it is legal by showing discussions that it is allowed because "Team A" is doing it, and "Team A" happens to be a VEXU team.

I would like to officially ask if 3D Printed License Plate holders are allowed on the VRC robot (Middle School & High School) as long as it "would be considered a non-functional decoration as described" by <R12> & <R28> or are 3D Printed License Plate Holders only allowed on the VEXU robots due to the abundance of resources allowed for them to use (including 3D printed materials)?

Rule R12 states: “a. Anodizing and painting of parts is considered a legal nonfunctional decoration” and “e. Decorations that visually mimic field elements or could otherwise interfere with an opponent’s Vision Sensor are considered functional and are not permitted. This includes lights, such as the VEX Flashlight. The Head Inspector and Head Referee will make the final decision on whether a given decoration or mechanism violates this rule.”
Our question is, can you paint your robot in a color that is similar to those of game and field elements (including but not limited to green, orange, purple, red, blue, black, gray)?
For example, if your school colors are green and black, could you paint your robot these colors, or would this be considered illegal because those colors may mimic field and game elements, thus violating section e? Another example, if your school colors again were green and black, could you paint the robot a darker shade of green than that of the cubes; or would this be considered illegal because of section e?

Because the Q&A's do not carry over from last season, I must ask this again to ensure your ruling has not changed on the previously-legal 3D printed V5 scuff controller add-on.

Rule <R21> States "Motors (including the internal PTC or Smart Motor firmware), microcontrollers (including V5 Robot Brain firmware), extension cords, sensors, controllers, battery packs, reservoirs, solenoids, pneumatic cylinders, and any other electrical component or pneumatics component of the VEX EDR platform may NOT be altered from their original state in ANY way.

Provided this add-on is easily removable, does not modify electrical components in any way, and was completely legal to use last year, would this add-on count as an illegal modification, or would last year's ruling carry on to this season?

<R12>

I do not see the 3x20 plate listed as either a legal or illegal part, I believe they were part of the rapid relay field parts.

In the past, if teams used powered decorations such as LED light strips they needed to be powered by the brain or cortex. With the new wording in <R12> part f, where it states:

Internal power sources (e.g. for a small blinking light) are permitted, provided that no other rules are violated and this source only provides power to the non-functional decoration (e.g. does not directly or indirectly influence any functional portions of the Robot)

Does this mean that teams can use external power for LED strips, or do they exceed the example of the "small blinking light"?

For purposes of the 88-watt power limit, can a team have 9 11-watt motors on their robot and leave one of the 9 unplugged? Perhaps for match-play they have motors 1-8 plugged in, but for skills they have motors 1-7 and 9 plugged in?

<R12>

While the same effect could be achieved via "hot swapping", it may be more convenient to simply swap which motor is disconnected. In a strict reading of rule R12a:

The combined power of all motors (11W & 5.5W) must not exceed 88W.

Having 9 physical 11-watt motors on the robot, but only 8 physically capable of being powered for a given match or skills run would seem to satisfy this condition.

Thanks in advance!

<R12> Will there be any limitations to pneumatics? I am assuming it will be similar to VRC with a limit of 2 air tanks / control units.

We were very surprised and excited to see pre-orders open up for the new IQ Pneumatics Kit. Thank you VEX Robotics for making that possible.

Since it's listed as VIQRC legal, we wondered: does it count in any way towards the 6 motor limit, per <R12>? Or will there be a separate limit established regarding pneumatics?

Clearly there must be an electric motor inside the pump - so one line of reasoning would count each pump as a single motor. That could make sense, but we wanted to know for certain. Any clarification here and in the next game manual release would be appreciated of course. Thank you.

<R12b> states

“Small cameras are permitted as non-functional decorations, provided that any transmitting functions or wireless communications are disabled. Unusually large cameras being used as ballast are not permitted.”

<R12g> states

“Decorations which provide visual feedback to Drive Team Members (e.g., decorative lighting) are permitted, provided that they do not violate any other rules and serve no other function (e.g., structural support).”

<R14> states

“Robots have one microcontroller. Robots must ONLY use one (1) VEX V5 Robot Brain (276-4810). Any other microcontrollers or processing devices are not allowed, even as non-functional Decorations. This includes microcontrollers that are part of other VEX product lines, such as VEX Cortex, VEX EXP, VEXpro, VEX RCR, VEX IQ, VEX GO, or VEX Robotics by HEXBUG. This also includes devices that are unrelated to VEX, such as Raspberry Pi or Arduino devices.”

Cameras contain microcontrollers and per <R12b> are legal for use as a non-functional decoration without an exception stated for <R14>. <R12g> permits the use of LEDs and also does not contain an exception for <R14>, however addressable LED light strips can use microcontrollers, such as the one in the picture below.

Scenario A: a robot uses an LED light strip with an RGB controller but without a remote, no wireless communication is used for the LEDs.

Scenario B: a robot uses an LED light strip with an RGB controller and with a remote. Wireless communication is used from the remote to the RGB controller.

Scenario C: a robot uses an LED light strip with an RGB controller that connects to both the LED light strip and the V5 brain through one or more 3-Wire ports. The V5 brain sends a signal to the RGB controller, which is used to set the LEDs.

Scenario D: a robot uses an LED light strip without an RGB controller and is connected directly to the V5 brain through one or more 3-Wire ports. The V5 brain is used to set the LEDs.

In which scenarios would LEDs be considered non-functional decorations?