Q&A

Hello,

SG2

Robot expansion is limited once the Match begins. Per <G4>, at the beginning of a Match, each Robot must be smaller than a volume of 18” (457.2 mm) long by 18” (457.2 mm) wide by 18” (457.2mm) tall. Once the Match begins, Robots may expand, but no horizontal dimension can exceed 36” (914.4 mm) at any point during the Match. See Figure 24.

Note: This is intended to be a linear, horizontal, “point-to-point” limit, measured across an expanded Robot. It is not a 3D volume, and it does not “rotate” with the Robot.

Note 2: If a Head Referee is uncertain whether a Robot has momentarily expanded beyond this limit, they may ask the Team after the Match to replicate the Robot’s state and check for compliance using a tape measure, VRC Expanded Sizing Tool, or other linear measuring device.

Minor violations of this rule that do not affect or interfere with the Match will result in a warning. Match Affecting offenses will result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee’s discretion

SG10

Use Scoring Objects to play the game. Scoring Objects may not be used to accomplish actions that would be otherwise illegal if they were attempted by Robot mechanisms (e.g., Interfering with an opponent’s Autonomous routine per <SG4>.)

The intent of this rule is to prohibit teams from using game objects as “gloves” to loophole any rule that states “a Robot may not [do some action]”. This rule is not intended to be taken in its most extreme literal interpretation, where any interaction between a Scoring Object and a Robot needs to be scrutinized with the same intensity as if it were a Robot.

With 2 bar mobile goal lifts, teams have found they can hold the tall neutral goal so the pole is parallel to the ground and can increase the effective length of their robot. My interpretation is because of the SG10 note, this would only be illegal if it's used intentionally.

Is using a Scoring Object to increase the Robots horizontal length past 36" legal? What should a Referee look for to determine if an action violates <SG2> through <SG10>?

Thank you for your time!

Rule <SG2> states that the robot may not at any point during the match extend past 36 inches horizontally. So say if a robot had two arms one on the front and one on the back that started within the 18 inch cube starting requirements. but during the match when both arms are extended the robot exceeds 36 inches. However, when only one arm is extended at a time it fits the 36 inch requirements. So if the robot was coded so that only one arm can be extended at a time during match would this still violate <SG2> and would the robot be allowed to pass inspection?

SG2 states Robots may expand, but no horizontal dimension can exceed 36” (914.4 mm) at any point during the Match. When a robot expanded to a height greater than 36 inches tips over, is this is a violation of SG2? The tipped over robot's "height" is now in a horizontal orientation which exceeds 36".

Would it be legal to score a ball in one of the opponent's home row goals during the autonomous period? Rule that apply: <SG2> The robot itself isn't crossing the autonomous line. <SG3> The ball would not contact the field tiles on the opposing side. <SG7> The balls are being used to "play the game" and would not interfere with the opponents autonomous routine. <G13> This is an offensive strategy, which should get the "benefit of the doubt"

			Thanks #50075 Margaret, Coach

During the Autonomous Period , can a robot conrtact the second Autonomous Line which is next to the opposing alliance ?

Can you clarify how the 36" expansion will be measured? For example, last season one of my teams built a robot that expanded to 35" front to back to make sure that they were under the 36" rule. At one tournament, the robot was measured from the back corner diagonally across the robot. This dimension was 37.6" and they were sent back to the pits to fix the issue. Is this the correct procedure? I have created a model of two robots to help clarify.

1. Is robot A or B legal? pdf
2. Should the diagonal also consider from top to bottom? (the 38" dimension on robot B) Does this make robot B also out of dimension?

VUG6 there are differences between manuals in the VRC hub and the Game Manual. On the VRC Hub app, rule VUG6 says: “Once the Match begins, Robots may expand beyond the starting size defined in <VUR1>, but no horizontal dimension can exceed 48” (1219.2mm). The robot may not exceed this limit for the duration of the match. There is no height limit on Robot Expansion” But on the Vex U appendix on the Vex website: “Both robots follow the expansion rules laid out in <SG2>

Which one of these rules (If either) is the correct VUG6 rule? If the VRC Hub App version is the correct ruling, does the 48” expansion apply to the 15” robot as well, and is there no vertical height limit restrictions for VEX U as implied by the wording in the VRC Hub version of VUG6?

SG2: Stay on your side in Autonomous. During the Autonomous Period, Robots may not contact the foam tiles or Balls which are on the opposing Alliance’s side of the Autonomous Line. Robots may not contact the Goals that are in the opposing Alliance’s Home Zone.

Violations of this rule will result in the Autonomous Bonus being awarded to the opposing Alliance. Intentional, strategic, or egregious violations, such as intentional contact with an opposing Robot while completely across the Autonomous Line, will result in a Disqualification.

SG2 Establishes that intentionally interfering with an opponent’s autonomous routine by crossing the center line and making contact with the opponent is grounds for a disqualification. However, intentional interference with the opponent’s autonomous routine does not result in the opponent being granted the autonomous win point. Is this interpretation correct?

If this interpretation is correct, this would allow teams to play spoiler. A disqualification does not mean anything to the team playing spoiler as they were likely already ranked low and/or suspected they were going to lose the match anyway. However, by preventing the opposing alliance from earning the autonomous win point, the spoiler team can heavily influence the outcome of the tournament. The additional win point could be the difference between the team achieving the #1 rank in VRC or making the cut off for the elimination matches in VEXU.

According to q&a #405 and #446

Causing Cubes to interact with** foam tiles, Towers, or Cubes** on the opposing Alliance's side of the Autonomous Line would be considered a violation of SG2 via SG7. Per SG2, violations could range from the Autonomous Bonus being awarded to the opposing Alliance, to a Disqualification, depending on the context of the interaction.

Within <sg2> we have a note talking about cubes that start in contact with the autonomous line, from here on in this post I will be referring to these cubes as "neutral cubes"

Note: Towers and Cubes which begin the Match in contact with the Autonomous Line are not considered to be on either side, and may be utilized by either Alliance during the Autonomous Period. If attempting to utilize these Towers or Cubes, Teams should be cognizant of the possibility that opponent Robots may attempt to do the same. <SG7>, <G10>, <G11>, and <G12> will be taken into account when these types of Robot interactions occur.

My question: when do the cubes which begin the match in contact with the autonomous line "neutral cubes" violate sg2 via sg7

Here are some generic scenarios that could be used to understand my question better. The intention of these scenarios is not to gather blanket rulings, but rather to give perspective to the types of rulings that would be affected by this q&a.

Scenario A) A red robot attempts to pick up one of the neutral cubes, doing so it accidentally drops said cube such that it lands completely across the autonomous lines.

Scenario B) A red robot accidentally pushes a row of cubes into one of the neutral cubes pushing the neutral cube towards the opposing alliance tiles thereby indirectly contacting the opposing alliance tiles

Scenario C) A red robot pushes a neutral cube roughly 2 inches towards the opposing alliance tiles, such that it's still in contact with the autonomous line

Scenario D) A red robot pushes a neutral cube completely across the autonomous line, after this a blue robot pushes this same cube completely across the autonomous line again (cube travels from neutral to blue side then to red side)

Note that causing cubes to interact with opponent robots are not listed as one of the conditions for SG2 via SG7.

Hello, I know that the purple cubes along the autonomous line are neutral and can be picked up by either sides robot, but what if the purple cube is pushed passed the autonomous line into the opposing alliances side, but no other cubes are robots go past the autonomous line. Is that a DQ for the team that pushed the purple cube over or is that purple cube just considered neutral and if so how far can that purple cube go until its not neutral? Like if they pick it up and it rolls out of there robot and rolls to the wall of the opposing side is it still neutral or is that a DQ? Thanks for your time!

when in autonomous, I know robots cannot cross the center line and touch the gray tiles or cubes on the other side - what about the airspace above the gray tiles?

During the :15 autonomous period, if a cube is pushed, falls, or tumbles across the center double lines, but in no way, shape, or form interferes with the opposing alliances autonomous routine, is that means for an automatic loss of the 6 point bonus?

<SG2> Stay on your side in Autonomous. During the Autonomous Period, Robots may not contact the foam tiles, Towers, or Cubes which are on the opposing Alliance’s side of the Autonomous Line.

Violations of this rule will result in the Autonomous Bonus being awarded to the opposing Alliance. Intentional, strategic, or egregious violations, such as intentional contact with an opposing Robot while completely across the Autonomous Line, will result in a Disqualification.

Note: Towers and Cubes which begin the Match in contact with the Autonomous Line are not considered to be on either side, and may be utilized by either Alliance during the Autonomous Period. If attempting to utilize these Towers or Cubes, Teams should be cognizant of the possibility that opponent Robots may attempt to do the same. <SG7>, <G10>, <G11>, and <G12> will be taken into account when these types of Robot interactions occur.

<SG7> Use Cubes to play the game. Cubes may not be used to accomplish actions that would be otherwise illegal if they were attempted by Robot mechanisms. Examples include (but are not limited to):

• Encroaching upon an opponent’s Protected Zone per <SG3>.

• Interfering with an opponent’s Autonomous Period per <SG2>.

a. According to QA 405, https://events.vex.com/VEXU/2019-2020/QA/405 "violations could range from the Autonomous Bonus being awarded to the opposing Alliance, to a Disqualification, depending on the context of the interaction." Does this mean that if a cube has cross the autonomous line from red into the blue side, either unintentional or intentional, then that red alliance automatically lost autonomous bonus, since the word from is used?

b. If the robot is intaking a neutral cube(started contacting the autonomous line), then the second the robot touched the cube, the robot now has indirectly contacted the foam tile in opposing alliance. According to SG2 Note, cubes "may be utilized by either Alliance during the Autonomous Period." In this case, does this note take precedence over SG2 via SG7?

During the Autonomous period, if a red robot causes a cube from the vertical stack of four to fall while trying to get cubes from that stack and one or more of the cubes in that stack crosses the autonomous line and causes the other vertical blue alliance stack of four to fall is that a violation of any rule?

Additionally, if the other team is not running autonomous, is the answer the same?

The robot is not directly touching the cube that crosses the line-e.g. trying to get the bottom 2 cubes of the stack.

Does the line "Teams must be prepared to demonstrate that their Robot does not exceed the maximum size constraint of 11” x 24” at any point" mean that if the robot is able to extend past 24" (even if the students don't use it this way), the robot will not pass inspection? <SG2>

Secondly, if the students design a swing arm which technically could make the robot longer that 24", but they program it to extend only when in an upright position and not in a horizontal position, limiting the extension when the arm is horizontal to 24" maximum (i..e the restraint on the mechanism is due to the software), how will inspection view this? Should it pass?

<SG2>

I am a head referee and while watching a recent competition, I witnessed a team disqualified after the completion of a match because a cord to a motor became disconnected. The head referee explained to the team that it was because they exceed width restriction in a match. Could you provide clarification with this rule? I assumed that unintentional violation of this rule, like a piece breaking loose during a match, would not be grounds for disqualification. I have more competitions coming up and would like to educate my teams if this is a risk.

A robot is capable of expanding outside of the 22"x22"x22" cube, but uses code to limit the expansion so that the robot will not over expand. (Ex: an arm fully rotating up and over the robot would be outside of the 22" height, but the code limits the rotation of the motor and therefore the upper limit of the arm.)

When considering expansion of the robot and the 22"x22"x22" cube, the Inspection Sheets says that

Robot does not expand larger than 22”x22”x22”.

In the Official answer to 2749, it was answered that

A Robot being capable of violating <SG2> does not mean it has violated <SG2>. A Robot can only violate <SG2> by exceeding the horizontal expansion limit during a Match. Some of your scenarios put the Team at greater risk of an <SG2> violation than others do. Physical or code blocks that prevent over-expansion are recommended over "planning not to do it."

My question is, should an inspector, head referee, and/or head inspector mark the robot as not passed because it can expand larger than 22", or should they make a note on inspection, and make the head referee aware of, the potential for over expansion?

<SG2> <SG3> <R3>

In Specific Game Rules, Rule <SG2> is stated as the following,

Horizontal expansion is limited. Once the Match begins, Robots may expand horizontally beyond the 18” x 18” starting size limit within the following criteria: The Robot can never be larger than 22” wide or 22” long (must always be able to fit within a 22”x22” square horizontal footprint).<

Consider three scenarios which could possibly be following the rules, or being in violation of this rule.

1. A robot has two mechanisms that extend out that when both extended cross over the 22" horizontal limit, but when only one is extended, is within the limit. The team chooses to not use both at once in a match and understands they may get a violation if they accidentally extend both during a match.
2. Similar to the last scenario, a team once again has a mechanism that extends beyond 22" when fully extended in both directions, but is within when one is extended. The team this time however, makes sure they cannot ever have both extended at once, adding a line in all their codes to prevent both mechanisms from being extended simultaneously. They show this to inspection, thinking the robot is technically always within the 22" limit.
3. This time, the same issue arises, but the team decides to connect both mechanisms to a single motor or pneumatic cylinder, so when one mechanism is open, the other is closed, making it phsyically impossible to have both open without modification after inspection.

Which of these scenarios would count as following <SG2> and which would be in violation of the rule?

If my robot has two expandable parts on the both side, and if I expanded only one of them, my robot still meet the size rule in SG1 and SG2. But if I expanded them both, I will be oversize of SG2, so I will never use this form in matching. So could I pass the inspection using the forms that will be used in matching, and do not need to expand all parts that I never use and will cause me violate the rules?

Hello, Upon a close inspection of the game manual, I noticed a discrepancy between the intent of VUG6 and the actual wording of the rule. VUG6 reads:

"The Robot which starts 24” tall must return to 24” once it is no longer contacting the Expansion Zone. The Robot which starts 15” tall must return to 15” once it is no longer contacting the Expansion Zone."

The loophole lies with in phrase "starts 24" tall" and "starts 15" tall. Very few robots actually start at 24" tall and 15" tall. In practice they are smaller then these values, for example a robot sarting at a height of 23" tall and another robot starting at a height of 14.5" tall. The way the rule is written, a robot starting at 23" tall and another starting at 14.5" tall would not fall under VUG6 as it is not starting at 24" tall nor 15" tall. Furthermore since VUG6 no longer applies to these robots, SG2a would apply. SG2a reads:

"Once the Match begins, a Robot which is contacting the Expansion Zone may expand vertically with no height limit. However, once fully outside of the Expansion Zone (i.e. no longer contacting it), the Robot must return to a height limit of 18” (457.2 mm) tall."

So from the actual wording of the game manual, all vexU robots that do not start at exactly 24" tall or 15" tall then must return to be within 18" outside of the expansion zone. So that means that nearly every vexU team has violated the game manual rules as they are written.

The intent of the rule clearly is to base the expansion rules off the robots that start within 24" tall and within 15" tall, which is how vexU has been playing Turning Point sofar. However, even this wording is inadequate as the scenerio that both robots start within 15" tall would cause confusion on which robot would be allowed to expand vertically. For example, a 23x23x14" tall robot and a 14x14x14 robot. Now is the 14"x14x14 robot allowed to expand to 24" tall, declaring that is your robot that started within 24" tall, and the 23x23x14" robot limited to 15" expansion declaring that is your robot that started within 15" tall?

I would like to propose the wording of VUG6 to revised to reflect the actual robot definitions established in VUR1. VUR1 reads:

"Teams must build two (2) Robots, subject to the following size restrictions at the start of the match: c. Robot A must be smaller than 24” x 24” x 24”. d. Robot B must be smaller than 15” x 15” x 15”. "

Therefore using the definitions of robot A and robot B already set by VUR1, I would like to propose VUG6 be revised to: "Robot A must return to 24” once it is no longer contacting the Expansion Zone. Robot B must return to 15” once it is no longer contacting the Expansion Zone."